tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4266300416434206693.post6764796710820450522..comments2023-08-11T12:04:42.077+02:00Comments on The Church of Rationality: A Case against a Conservative Case against Gay Marriage, Pt. 1LemmusLemmushttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00917054221547240969noreply@blogger.comBlogger3125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4266300416434206693.post-51361695355528297412009-05-05T23:00:00.000+02:002009-05-05T23:00:00.000+02:00John: I had overlooked that aspect, instead rushin...John: I had overlooked that aspect, instead rushing to the more general point. Agreed on all counts.<br /><br />pj: I was and am going to say a few words about people feeling "their" institution is damaged when others are "allowed in" in the last post (though I don't have a super theory on this). As for religion in particular, in my view religions can discriminate against their members as much as they like as long as nobody's forced to be a member (which, given that parents have children, is not very realistic). (I know there are committed homosexuals in the catholic church. There are also committed women in the catholic church. I don't get it.)LemmusLemmushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00917054221547240969noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4266300416434206693.post-35712271585880269512009-05-05T20:11:00.000+02:002009-05-05T20:11:00.000+02:00I never understand why heterosexuals, religious pe...I never understand why heterosexuals, religious people in particular, fail to understand that civil marriage is a legal convention (and that is why it is the realm of the state) - it has very little to do with religious marriage.<br /><br />That has been the situation for much of modern history and is certainly the case in common law countries like the UK.<br /><br />I cannot understand why religious people feel their religious institution of marriage is threatened by people choosing to enter into non-heterosexual marriage contracts outside of the church. My civil marriage is certainly no endorsement of religious marriage, even if it is heterosexual!<br /><br />I think it just comes down to the knee jerk 'ick, I don't like gay people and all their doings, being so in your face with their existing and all that' attitude held by many heterosexual people - it isn't gay marriage that's a threat to their sensibilities, it is thinking at all.pjhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06832177812057826894noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4266300416434206693.post-30290860684378306852009-05-05T17:52:00.000+02:002009-05-05T17:52:00.000+02:00From the Secular Right post:
The social recogniti...From the Secular Right post:<br /><br /><I>The social recognition of committed heterosexual bonding has been a constant for thousands of years.</I>That's very carefully choosing to focus on the benign part -- "heterosexual bonding." I notice that they don't focus on the ages of the people in all of those bonds, or how much coercion was involved. If they were honest and explicit about those factors, their argument would sudddenly sound a lot less appealing. <br /><br />It's also misleading to characterize the issue as being about whether "homosexuals" can marry. If they want to argue about history, they should admit that historically, it's been entirely approved of for "homosexuals" to marry. It's just that historically, they haven't been allowed to marry the people they're attracted to. This leads to gays marrying people of the opposite sex to fit into the established norms and institutions. This increases the level of unhappiness and adultery in society. <br /><br />Also, every time Gay Person marries Straight Person #1, it doesn't just interfere with Gay Person's happiness. It also precludes an alternate universe in which Straight Person #1 would be unencumbered by that sham marriage and would instead marry Straight Person #2. That alternate universe would be more fulfilling for the two straight people (aside from obviously better for the gay person). If you to look at this issue from a utilitarian perspective, you need to factor all of this into your calculus.John Althouse Cohenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11703450281424023177noreply@blogger.com